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2005-09-26 [spincrus]: Nice beginning! From now on, any sort of harassment should be reported here for us to take care of it. Let's get this announced actually.
2005-09-26 [Sunrose]: I will create a banner for the wiki and for Elftown Üyelerine Mesaj Atmak. And then we need to think of a way how we can positively announce this wiki without offending some people..
2005-09-26 [Shainn]: Best wishes teammates..
2005-09-26 [spincrus]: Let our first project be to improve Turkish Help, Elftown Üyelerine Mesaj Atmak and the Turkish UAR. I think the UAR should be our priority, since the others are already there. The new rule of this Wiki is to ONLY WRITE IN ENGLISH in here for everyone to understand what's going on.
2005-09-26 [Shainn]: Then we should share tasks and translate the remaining pages.
2005-09-26 [Sunrose]: Translate Turkish Help into Turkish (the wikiname) and a completely new helpwiki can be designed ;) All of the pages that are to help Turkish members should also have Turkish wikinames I guess :)
2005-09-27 [Blue Highway]: I think it is really great that you are doing this, [spincrus], [Shainn] and [GregowicH]...it's great to see that some people are willing to take responsibility for things that in fact they don't NEED to feel responsible for...I love your mentality! Good luck! I'll think about a POSITIVE way to nominate this wiki at Wiki nominations.
2005-09-29 [Sunrose]: Banner was made by [Charybdis], hope you all like it :) I can change the font and fontcolour if people would like it changed....
2005-09-29 [ally]: maybe a lighter font-colour to make the letters more clear?
2005-09-29 [Sunrose]: Like which colour? Because the banner has a dark AND lighter background...
2005-09-29 [ally]: Hard to say. Maybe you could use a colourdiagram ad use the opposing colour of the lightest shade... or the darkest
2005-09-29 [Sunrose]: Eh what? :p
2005-09-29 [ally]: XD Never mind. Black looks nice. I'm just going blind. (look it rhymes :o)
2005-09-29 [spincrus]: Nice! I like it. Yes, I'd also go for a slightly ligter color too though.
2005-09-29 [Shainn]: Yes, nice! I put it on my presentation already. :)
2005-10-01 [Paul Doyle]: May I link this page on my ET house? ^_^
2005-10-01 [spincrus]: Of course Pauly :D By the way, starting tomorrow, I will be gone for a month.
2005-10-01 [Sunrose]: :(
2005-10-01 [spincrus]: Military duty can't wait :P
2005-10-01 [spincrus]: Of course, before I go, here's a suggestion: I just saw this in another Turkish member of Elftown's house: http://elftown
2005-10-01 [Sunrose]: Translated in Turkish you mean?
2005-10-01 [Sunrose]: Do any of the images on **** look familiar?
2005-10-02 [Shainn]: Yes I sent a report. He did this before too, huh? Hmm, close to the edge..
2005-10-02 [Sunrose]: We were able to identify some (removed befor eyou got there), but not all :p
2005-10-03 [Sunrose]: *grins* ok ^^
2005-10-04 [ugursarac]: can i join you??
2005-10-04 [Sunrose]: I am not so sure you can behave and help us...you have the tendency to be a bit naughty sometimes and hack other people or upload illegal images and that sort of thing..
2005-10-07 [Sunrose]: Can someone talk to ****: random messaging girls inviting them to view his dingdong on webcam.. :/
2005-10-07 [Sunrose]: ****: random messaging girls (minors) asking for nude pictures..
2005-10-09 [Shainn]: both have been warned. no reply yet.
2005-10-09 [Sunrose]: Thank you :)
2005-10-09 [Shainn]: No problem :)
2005-10-10 [Sagacious Turkey]: *hark*
2005-10-14 [The_Soulforged]: "Is this a famous Turk image [erkaya]" ... not sure of it.. But the ilmunation and the posing of the picture is professional..
2005-10-14 [Sunrose]: Yea, that was what I was thinking....bu
2005-10-18 [L?se]: Yay! This is a wonderful initiative! Keep it up, guys :)
2005-10-18 [Shainn]: Thanks Llyse. :)
2005-10-28 [Sunrose]: [Mecrophagia]: all non-English comments get deleted. You can try Turkiye to speak in Turkish. Also try to follow the Uploading Art Rules.
2005-11-14 [Linn Scarlett]: *cheers* go you :D
2005-11-24 [spincrus]: - Elftown'a Resim Gonderme Kurallari - The Turkish UAR :)
2005-11-24 [Sunrose]: Great :D
2005-11-24 [Paul Doyle]: I am starting to find this discriminatory sign (among others) in my Patrolling. I am sending Guard Reports as I find them: http://elfpack
2005-11-24 [spincrus]: Do you know the source of these? Can it be from a wiki that's actually been started on Elfpack?
2005-11-24 [Paul Doyle]: I don't know. I'm really not a big fan of Elfpack, at all---but because you are curious, I will log onto EP and find out. :)
2005-11-24 [spincrus]: I don't even have an account there on Elfpack :)
2005-11-24 [Paul Doyle]: Elfpack #17542 is [*//i am scene///x]. Apparently this person created that particular image. No wiki link on the user's EP page, though :/
2005-11-24 [Paul Doyle]: . . . and apparently he is also on Elftown, with the same exact presentation page.
2005-11-24 [spincrus]: Grrr, I'm mad at this person now, not because of his racist bigotry, but just... just... It's not Elftown material at all! I'm so mad :(
2005-11-24 [Paul Doyle]: You have every right to be mad. I'm sorry people have to be so mindless :-/
2005-11-24 [spincrus]: But the problem is, these people can't be removed from Elftown just because they're not Elftown material. The rules don't allow it.
2005-11-24 [Paul Doyle]: I wish a positive effort could be made to make Elfpack more appealing for the very many elftowners who really ought to be over there. Of course, we can't force the issue, either, or appear to be harrassing them or scaring them off. :3
2005-11-24 [spincrus]: Lol what kind of smiley is that? :3
2005-11-24 [Paul Doyle]: Oh, it's an anthro-smiley. Variants: :=3 }8=D and so forth.
2005-11-24 [Linn Scarlett]: some people should be hit, severally X_X several times X_X ps it did NOT came from the Argh! I'm Stalked! which is NO racist wiki. well maybe racist against cyberers X_X
2005-11-24 [Linn Scarlett]: i know the wiki mainly deals with annoying turkish people. but there were enough americans and europeans too >_< and so much people fail to see the point that its about annoying cyberers and not some imaginary racist thing >_< because its not, its about cyberers
2005-11-24 [spincrus]: But still most of us find it disturbing, when a "multinational
2005-11-24 [Jay Ladlehaus]: So far, I've only read one case where cyber stalking is considered a "crime" and that was in Florida.
2005-11-24 [Sunrose]: Err [Paul Doyle]: On Elfpack we do put in effort to make Elfpack appealing and racism is against the rules there too. But if no one reports the image, how am I supposed to know?
2005-11-24 [Paul Doyle]: I didn't see it on the EP user's house, although the image appears to have been uploaded there.
2005-11-24 [Linn Scarlett]: then its both the EPers crime AND the one displaying it. Oh and Spincrus, i ment that everybody always attacks our anti-cyber site on racism. which is completely untrue! it clearly reads 'ALL CYBERERS'. I just find it odd and sad that much of them do appear to be people from the middle east (not only turkish but general middle-east) i wonder how that comes
2005-11-24 [Sunrose]: Paul: The image contains a membernumber, which means it can be traced to someone's imagehistory and deleted from there. And even if it were uploaded to a wiki, I can request [Hedda] to delete it ;) // [Linn Scarlett]: that wiki you speak of was changed, it stated more about Turkish members specifically before which was actually rather offensive... . I think there are more non-middle eastern cyberers and troublemakers, but they are not as recognisable as a group nor do they all have the same style of approach (as the Turkish members seem to have). I'm not trying to make it sound like there is no problem, but I also know a lot of people just go with the ride of complaining...
2005-11-24 [Sunrose]: Some who complain have not really had any cybermessages. And if I can ignore it (when my being more well known tends to get me a lot of crap in my inbox), then why is it so hard for them? Either way things have already been done against the problem and more is still being done. And that should give some comfort and satisfaction at least, to the ones who are really bothered.
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: From now on, upon registration, the members should have to click an "accept" button on a Terms of Use page, or multiple pages even (like 5 consecutive pages, which you have to skip one by one by clicking the "accept" button which shows after 10 seconds the page first loads) and each page should say, in at least 7 languages (English, German, French, Turkish, Arabic, Spanish, Portuguese, etc.) that Elftown is not a matchmaking service.
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: OR even easier is to implement a system where new members have to be approved by the members of a committee, and the rules have to get a bit tighter and enforced more strictly. We have a very successful online community here in Turkey (it's quite huge, called EksiSozluk, [Shainn] knows it too) where the moderators realized that it wasn't possible to maintain peace and order within the community, back in 2001, and didn't accept any new members for a year! Then they opened once, then closed again for another year, then opened it again, and now they have closed it once more, where new members get accepted by "moderator approval" only.
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: such things have been suggested, but [Hedda] doesnt seem to want that. Yes Sunrose I do get a lot of crap in my inbox and i do try to ignore it. But i find it rather rude if someone messages you demanding you put on your webcam and get naked. Could be me, but I report them if they say that. And I did have a few dozen cyber messages and I all recorded them. And sadly but true, most are turkish/middle east people. I don't know why and it's pretty sad because I know some great friends that are turkish and they get the blame aswell and that's just wrong >_<
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: especially when your house says clearly readable that you have a boyfriend or are married. I just can't understand what the fuck is wrong with those people?!
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: A Terms of Use page is ug random people as Useless, since it is fairly easy to click accept without reading a word of it. So that would not make any difference, except wasting time to create it. I even passed Elfwood's test without reading the rules. // With so many members joining each week and only about 15 active guards we could never have such a system (and hiring random Guards is obviously not an option). [Hedda] wants to keep the community open for everyone and it are often the non-artists who use Elftown's features to the full extent AND send out the most messages that makes this community alive. On Elfpack people relatively send more messages to each other than they do here.
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: Activity is good for the community, because if no one is active people start leaving. That results in empty houses and that results in more people leaving. // As for the rules: I think they are already being applied strict. If the rule is to give someone 1 warning, that is all the person will get. However in some cases the rules could be tighter. We have been planning this, but we first wanted to implement the new application-sy
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: [Linn Scarlett]: I have accepted long ago that they don't read anything. They only look at your picture, mainly to see whether or not you are female. I think I understand what is wrong with them, but I'll not elaborate on that as it is not really relevant to solving the problem. Such messages are inappropriate, but generally I do not take them seriously (and thus am not offended) and just make fun of them. Members who send such messages and get reported get one warning, the next violation gets them banned. We apply this to all of them...
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: But anyway, we can discuss how bad things are, but I rather try to solve it. So hence this wiki was made and further translations of pages into Turkish. The applicationsys
2005-11-25 [The_Soulforged]: I'm sure anyone in the team should help you about the translations. Just show us what to translate...
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: [spincrus] made Elftown'a Resim Gonderme Kurallari and worked on Turkish Help. What is an asshole? remains I think. They don't send chain messages so that doesn't have to be translated. And I will write a new message I can send them...
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: see i think thats's a wonderfull thing, translating all kinds of info pages to turkish because somehow those asses that i encountered didn't seem to understand the word no. And most english/englis
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: Members who don't understand no can be referred to Elftown Üyelerine Mesaj Atmak (translation at the bottom) ;)
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: i know, i already do so
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: Hmmm, "asshole" can't be translated into Turkish without becoming exceedingly rude :P
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: Sounds good to me :P
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: asshole = exeedingly rude :p
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: The word asshole has been more socially accepted, but in fact also has a rude meaning. And indeed assholes are rude so why not label them with an appropriate name? :P
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: Well "asshole" in Turkish would be something in the lines of, errm, see English profanity is no where CLOSE to the Turkish, or even German ones when it comes to feeling! "Fuck" is so common now :P
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: Perhaps because Turkish is your own language too :p
2005-11-25 [Blue Highway]: This reminds me of when -years ago- I was taught some nice Turkish profanities by some boys from my neighbourhood.
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: hmm well maybe turkish people/middle east are less used to people using the words just as a halt, instead of an insult
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: I think it's both things together. Kutwijf sounds more insulting than bitch to me for instance, because bitch is more often used as common speech and it is not in my own language so it has less emotional effect...
2005-11-25 [Blue Highway]: It's common these days to refer to one's girlfriend as 'my bitch'...maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think it very offending...
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: Well...yes if someone says it like that, to refer to a loved one it seems kind of out of place. These days bitch has become a petname so to speak. But if someone said 'Mijn kutwijf', would that not feel more offended? hehe..
2005-11-25 [Blue Highway]: I don't have a violent nature, but if a loved one said THAT to me, I'd make an exception.. ;)
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: There you go :p
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: i find it both offending..... actually.... and that "my bitch" if my boyfriend ever said that, i'd seriously kick his ass. but then again he wouldn't because he knows i dispise rappers
2005-11-25 [The_Soulforged]: I'm working on the "Don't be an asshole" =) But in English you use asshole like we use "Orospu Çocuğu" (son of a bit*c). And it will be extra extra rude. But still I'm on.. =)
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: hmm ok :P
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: And I updated the Dutch UAR wheee ^_^
2005-11-25 [The_Soulforged]: While translating I'm trying to keep the structual integrity of the rules. So some texts can't be translated in a plain way. Soon I'll put it up for comitee.
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: Of course it doesn't have to be word for word, as long as it is proper Turkish and means the same thing ;)
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: yea ^_^
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: Yeah, "Orospu Cocugu" would be too rude, but don't you agree that it captures the mood more when you say it? And [Sunrose], I lived in the US for some considerable time, and I never, ever got the same feel when I called someone a SoB. Even arschloch in German sounds harsher than asshole :P
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: germanic languages (dutch, german, danish) all sound harsher because they have harsher sounds ;)
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: Oh, and a funny true story from the newspapers a while back. There was this guy here in Istanbul selling Eminem t-shirts. He was shouting out "come to Eminem! come to Eminem!", advertising his product. Then this another guy was passing along and noticed it. His mother's name was Emine, and with the suffix -m in Turkish, the meaning becomes "My Emine". So this guy gets real pissed off and tells the shopkeeper to stop shouting his mother's name. The other guy tries to explain that it's just the name of a well known rapper, but this idiot doesn't want to understand and stabs the shopkeeper multiple times, killing him. Moral of the story: don't, DON'T say anything bad against any Turk's mother!
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: Whoaaa O__O
2005-11-25 [The_Soulforged]: So what should I use instead of "orospu çocuğu". Any ideas ? Just plainly translatin "asshole" into Turkish will not give the exact meaning and feeling...
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: Yeah, exact same response I got last year from my apartment mate when I told him this story. He never even dared to jokingly say "you son of a bitch" to the other Turks around. Well I was cool with it and didn't give a damn, why should I? :D
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: [The_Soulforged], what about "dallama"?
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: (Dallama means "douche bag" by the way. Not the literal translation, but that's what it is heh)
2005-11-25 [Sunrose]: *grins* nice word :p and poor apartment mate! I'd not even think of the effects of saying that, though I wouldn't say it to strangers anyway...but you never know what could slip your mind O.o
2005-11-25 [Linn Scarlett]: mehhh X_X
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: He was a referree and quite often worked in indoor soccer and basketball tournaments within our college. We had this Turkish team (and it's in our blood to oppose to the referree, sadly) and he once or twice slipped it out accidently. He never did it again after hearing the story. Well they wouldn't stab him but would just cause an argument, an unnecessary one at that.
2005-11-25 [The_Soulforged]: "Dallama" is a good one but this will not be as hard as I thought.. But I'll do whatever you ask. Is "Dallama" ok for all?
2005-11-25 [The_Soulforged]: We should use "Kıro" ( I never successfully translated or tell it in English =)) ) , hmm maybe "Öküz" ( Ox , but used as a bad word in Turkish) ?
2005-11-25 [spincrus]: Öküz, yeah. "Nasil Dallama Olunur" vs. "Nasil Öküz Olunur"?
2005-11-25 [The_Soulforged]: Here it is Öküz Olmayın !. Will be improved =)
2005-11-26 [spincrus]: Nice! Like it, good job there :)
2005-11-26 [Sunrose]: Great! ^_^
2005-11-26 [Linn Scarlett]: yeey for you ^_^ (waht does it mean? :P)
2005-11-26 [spincrus]: "Don't be an ass!" basically :P
2005-11-27 [Paul Doyle]: Ah, but is that not discrimination against donkeys and mules? ;-)
2005-11-27 [spincrus]: I'm a racist!!!...er
2005-11-27 [erturk]: elftown yöneticilerini
2005-11-27 [spincrus]: (English only please).
2005-11-27 [erturk]: they are all stupids.becaus
Number of comments: 321
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